No Park Options

[Maine-ly DH]

This resort has 8 peaks and over 100 trails. More tomorrow including the woods after this dump of snow. Sorry but you sound like a bunch of whiners. Some of those trails were closed because they were getting everything groomed out and ready to get a foot of snow on it.

Half a dozen paying customers vs. Hosting a premiere event with Shawn White et al and media?

Bygones dudes but the mountain wins.

Well said.

So will the general public get to try the course before or after the competition? Then it would be great for me. Otherwise, I don't care to see the pictures of something I can't use; save it TV. Will there be a way to ski Agony and Southpaw at all next week?

I can say that 99% chance that the course is opened to the public will be a no.

The course does not interfere with Agonay, SP so I would guess that they will be open.

That was not the case today. Both were closed because of course construction.

Well, then, I'll say that that was because the Cats were working on the right turn between the two trails. Once theyre done with that MAYBE they will be open.

We'll have to see.

[MaryLou]

I think people that enjoy Rocking Chair have legitimate gripes/disappointment. Not a park person, but if someone is sick enough to enjoy those massive jumps, I don't see how starlight or So. Ridge parks could even compare. I see how it benefits SR and all that (even though myself and family will see zippo coverage or exposure), but SR has to recognize if people haul butt up to SR (and pay/stay for vacation week planned weeks and months in advance) and find a huge part of the reason they wanted to come to SR is closed, they'll be bummed. SR has to manage their guest's expectations. If the guest would be happier somewhere else, SR has to recognize that and lose a sale for the benefit of the marketing of the big event. That means giving honest info to guests, an outdated web page doesn't seem like the way.

[LiveToSki]

I think people that enjoy Rocking Chair have legitimate gripes/disappointment. Not a park person, but if someone is sick enough to enjoy those massive jumps, I don't see how starlight or So. Ridge parks could even compare. I see how it benefits SR and all that (even though myself and family will see zippo coverage or exposure), but SR has to recognize if people haul butt up to SR (and pay/stay for vacation week planned weeks and months in advance) and find a huge part of the reason they wanted to come to SR is closed, they'll be bummed. SR has to manage their guest's expectations. If the guest would be happier somewhere else, SR has to recognize that and lose a sale for the benefit of the marketing of the big event. That means giving honest info to guests, an outdated web page doesn't seem like the way.

Yes.

Personally, I "got over" the trail closures at Barker yesterday pretty quickly. Sheryl had a brief conversation with a patroller who also thought that the number of trail closures on Barker was excessive and that we should complain to guest services. I made a mental note to mention this to Dana the next time that I saw him. After making sure a fallen skier on Topgun was okay and collecting her equipment , we left Barker and had a great day in Aurora and Jordan.

Then I saw this post from a Sunday River employee:

I don't see how this is a bad thing at all, we are all giving up a little for a couple of weeks, so the mountain and ultimately us will get a lot in the long run. There is still a lot of season left to go, and there are still big things in the works for the parks so sit tight and enjoy the World Cup.

If this post represents the thinking of SR management, then they need an attitude adjustment. SR is not some sort of co-op made up of the mountain and its users. It is a business and we are all paying customers. Many of those customers are only there for this one week in February. So, a World Cup event in a couple of weeks does absolutely nothing for them.

Management needs to understand that when they give special privileges from one group, they take away from everyone else. And they should do everything they can to minimize the inconvenience to everyone else. Between the Snowboard World Cup, the Maine High School races, and Gould training, this week has been particularly bad.

Everytime this discussion comes up, somebody says "there were a whole bunch of other trails to ski". But that fails to recognize the uniqueness of some trails on the mountain. SR has a plethora of groomed blue cruisers. So, you can take a few of those away and nobody will notice. But there are fewer of other classes of trail. So, the mountain needs to be more sensitive to shutting those down. And in this particular case, there is only one trail on the mountain with big jumps. So losing that trail is a major downer for anybody who wants to hit big jumps.

In particular yesterday, I think there are 3 things the mountain could have done better:

1) Set up a couple of big jumps somewhere else to replace what was lost in Rocking Chair.

2) Figured out how to do the work on Sunday Punch while keeping Agony and Southpaw open. The WC course goes into RC above Agony, so with a bit of extra effort, those trails could have been kept open.

3) Moved Gould training off of Barker to another area on the mountain. That would have eliminated the perception on Barker that everywhere you turn there are trails closed.

But in general, whenever there is an event, you need to do everything possible to minimize its impact on the paying customer "off the street". I don't hit the big jumps, so RC being closed is not a big deal. My bigger peeve is that LL/CB/TW are often closed because od training on T2 or races on MM. Closing LL because of training on T2 is just laziness. There is no reason for it. And it seems to me with a little extra effort, the mountain could create a exit from TW that avoids the race finish on MM. There isn't really another trail on the mountain like LL/CB/TW, so when you take it a way, you lose a lot.

This post has been edited by LiveToSki: Feb 19 2009, 05:30 AM

[darkcloudboy]

I think people that enjoy Rocking Chair have legitimate gripes/disappointment. Not a park person, but if someone is sick enough to enjoy those massive jumps, I don't see how starlight or So. Ridge parks could even compare. I see how it benefits SR and all that (even though myself and family will see zippo coverage or exposure), but SR has to recognize if people haul butt up to SR (and pay/stay for vacation week planned weeks and months in advance) and find a huge part of the reason they wanted to come to SR is closed, they'll be bummed. SR has to manage their guest's expectations. If the guest would be happier somewhere else, SR has to recognize that and lose a sale for the benefit of the marketing of the big event. That means giving honest info to guests, an outdated web page doesn't seem like the way.

amen to that!!! i'm glad someone understands how some of us park rats feel.

[Maine-ly DH]

I think people that enjoy Rocking Chair have legitimate gripes/disappointment. Not a park person, but if someone is sick enough to enjoy those massive jumps, I don't see how starlight or So. Ridge parks could even compare. I see how it benefits SR and all that (even though myself and family will see zippo coverage or exposure), but SR has to recognize if people haul butt up to SR (and pay/stay for vacation week planned weeks and months in advance) and find a huge part of the reason they wanted to come to SR is closed, they'll be bummed. SR has to manage their guest's expectations. If the guest would be happier somewhere else, SR has to recognize that and lose a sale for the benefit of the marketing of the big event. That means giving honest info to guests, an outdated web page doesn't seem like the way.

1) Set up a couple of big jumps somewhere else to replace what was lost in Rocking Chair.


3) Moved Gould training off of Barker to another area on the mountain. That would have eliminated the perception on Barker that everywhere you turn there are trails closed.

1) There is no other feseable trail that could withstand jumps like RC. Plus, it would probably just annoy more people about closing another trail.

3) Said this before and will say it again. Gould is based out of Baker. All of the training gates, pull gates, drills, ect. are located at the Comp Center. If you would like to carry the equipment to another peak I would think that Gould would accept your offer.

This post has been edited by Maine-ly DH: Feb 19 2009, 06:17 AM

[GretzkyU2Yanks]

I can see both sides of the argument, but I guess national coverage is worth upsetting a few customers.

Something that hasnt been mentioned:
this Saturday (supposed to be a beautfiul day, at the end of a vacation week, in the middle of the ski season, and after a dumping in which everybody south got mostly rain) the mountain is going to be packed.

If most of Barker is closed its going to cause huge lines (Sunday River standards anyway) on a lot of the other peaks.

This post has been edited by GretzkyU2Yanks: Feb 19 2009, 08:05 AM

[SR Park Crew]

The resort is doing all that we can to accommodate everyone. The web site should be current I agree and it is now. I understand people’s pain when it comes to loosing our signature park that has become a hit this season. We are able to produce a certain amount of snow each year and we need to manage how and when we make it. Rocking chair will give us the best world cup run and we are able to take advantage of our snow. It would be very difficult to make bigger jumps on another part of our resort. When you add up all the costs to producing what we have on Rocking chair and apply that to a 10-day need; we just cant do it. Many behind the scenes resources go into what we build, it is just not feasible. I want you to know that as this event ends we will have the largest amount of snow for Rocking chair in many years. We plan to build the park back up for the last 6-7 weeks of skiing. We also will have Agony, SP and other trails open as soon as possible; we closed those trails yesterday to keep our guest SAFE. If any amount of snow were to break loose and roll down the hill, even a great run down agony would end with a bad result. PLEASE understand as I know what its like to loose our biggest jumps, favorite trails and other resort impacts, we have thought about what we have lost and we will gain it all back bigger and better.

I know some people do not see the value in putting on such a massive event with lots of TV and print coverage, but from a resort standpoint it becomes another piece of our resorts history. Not every resort can accommodate such events and we have a lot to be proud of when they ask us to be the host.

As the Park Manager I can assure you we will have our Park back and IT WILL be BIGGER, BADDER and could last well into the summer!!

Roma

[darkcloudboy]

The resort is doing all that we can to accommodate everyone. The web site should be current I agree and it is now. I understand people’s pain when it comes to loosing our signature park that has become a hit this season. We are able to produce a certain amount of snow each year and we need to manage how and when we make it. Rocking chair will give us the best world cup run and we are able to take advantage of our snow. It would be very difficult to make bigger jumps on another part of our resort. When you add up all the costs to producing what we have on Rocking chair and apply that to a 10-day need; we just cant do it. Many behind the scenes resources go into what we build, it is just not feasible. I want you to know that as this event ends we will have the largest amount of snow for Rocking chair in many years. We plan to build the park back up for the last 6-7 weeks of skiing. We also will have Agony, SP and other trails open as soon as possible; we closed those trails yesterday to keep our guest SAFE. If any amount of snow were to break loose and roll down the hill, even a great run down agony would end with a bad result. PLEASE understand as I know what its like to loose our biggest jumps, favorite trails and other resort impacts, we have thought about what we have lost and we will gain it all back bigger and better.

I know some people do not see the value in putting on such a massive event with lots of TV and print coverage, but from a resort standpoint it becomes another piece of our resorts history. Not every resort can accommodate such events and we have a lot to be proud of when they ask us to be the host.

As the Park Manager I can assure you we will have our Park back and IT WILL be BIGGER, BADDER and could last well into the summer!!

Roma

thanks roma. you always make me feel better. that last part about well into the summer. you guys should set up a summer time rail event.

[The_Unknown]

I think it's great, yeah the park was great and I more then anyone will be bummed that it's gone but I think it's about time Sundayriver stepped up and hosted a world class snowboarding event like the used to. I may even come up to watch the race.

[myfahqboots]

I think people that enjoy Rocking Chair have legitimate gripes/disappointment. Not a park person, but if someone is sick enough to enjoy those massive jumps, I don't see how starlight or So. Ridge parks could even compare. I see how it benefits SR and all that (even though myself and family will see zippo coverage or exposure), but SR has to recognize if people haul butt up to SR (and pay/stay for vacation week planned weeks and months in advance) and find a huge part of the reason they wanted to come to SR is closed, they'll be bummed. SR has to manage their guest's expectations. If the guest would be happier somewhere else, SR has to recognize that and lose a sale for the benefit of the marketing of the big event. That means giving honest info to guests, an outdated web page doesn't seem like the way.

Yes.

Personally, I "got over" the trail closures at Barker yesterday pretty quickly. Sheryl had a brief conversation with a patroller who also thought that the number of trail closures on Barker was excessive and that we should complain to guest services. I made a mental note to mention this to Dana the next time that I saw him. After making sure a fallen skier on Topgun was okay and collecting her equipment , we left Barker and had a great day in Aurora and Jordan.

Then I saw this post from a Sunday River employee:

I don't see how this is a bad thing at all, we are all giving up a little for a couple of weeks, so the mountain and ultimately us will get a lot in the long run. There is still a lot of season left to go, and there are still big things in the works for the parks so sit tight and enjoy the World Cup.

If this post represents the thinking of SR management, then they need an attitude adjustment. SR is not some sort of co-op made up of the mountain and its users. It is a business and we are all paying customers. Many of those customers are only there for this one week in February. So, a World Cup event in a couple of weeks does absolutely nothing for them.

Management needs to understand that when they give special privileges from one group, they take away from everyone else. And they should do everything they can to minimize the inconvenience to everyone else. Between the Snowboard World Cup, the Maine High School races, and Gould training, this week has been particularly bad.

Everytime this discussion comes up, somebody says "there were a whole bunch of other trails to ski". But that fails to recognize the uniqueness of some trails on the mountain. SR has a plethora of groomed blue cruisers. So, you can take a few of those away and nobody will notice. But there are fewer of other classes of trail. So, the mountain needs to be more sensitive to shutting those down. And in this particular case, there is only one trail on the mountain with big jumps. So losing that trail is a major downer for anybody who wants to hit big jumps.

In particular yesterday, I think there are 3 things the mountain could have done better:

1) Set up a couple of big jumps somewhere else to replace what was lost in Rocking Chair.

2) Figured out how to do the work on Sunday Punch while keeping Agony and Southpaw open. The WC course goes into RC above Agony, so with a bit of extra effort, those trails could have been kept open.

3) Moved Gould training off of Barker to another area on the mountain. That would have eliminated the perception on Barker that everywhere you turn there are trails closed.

But in general, whenever there is an event, you need to do everything possible to minimize its impact on the paying customer "off the street". I don't hit the big jumps, so RC being closed is not a big deal. My bigger peeve is that LL/CB/TW are often closed because od training on T2 or races on MM. Closing LL because of training on T2 is just laziness. There is no reason for it. And it seems to me with a little extra effort, the mountain could create a exit from TW that avoids the race finish on MM. There isn't really another trail on the mountain like LL/CB/TW, so when you take it a way, you lose a lot.

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

[laenen]

The resort is doing all that we can to accommodate everyone. The web site should be current I agree and it is now. I understand people’s pain when it comes to loosing our signature park that has become a hit this season. We are able to produce a certain amount of snow each year and we need to manage how and when we make it. Rocking chair will give us the best world cup run and we are able to take advantage of our snow. It would be very difficult to make bigger jumps on another part of our resort. When you add up all the costs to producing what we have on Rocking chair and apply that to a 10-day need; we just cant do it. Many behind the scenes resources go into what we build, it is just not feasible. I want you to know that as this event ends we will have the largest amount of snow for Rocking chair in many years. We plan to build the park back up for the last 6-7 weeks of skiing. We also will have Agony, SP and other trails open as soon as possible; we closed those trails yesterday to keep our guest SAFE. If any amount of snow were to break loose and roll down the hill, even a great run down agony would end with a bad result. PLEASE understand as I know what its like to loose our biggest jumps, favorite trails and other resort impacts, we have thought about what we have lost and we will gain it all back bigger and better.

I know some people do not see the value in putting on such a massive event with lots of TV and print coverage, but from a resort standpoint it becomes another piece of our resorts history. Not every resort can accommodate such events and we have a lot to be proud of when they ask us to be the host.

As the Park Manager I can assure you we will have our Park back and IT WILL be BIGGER, BADDER and could last well into the summer!!

Roma

But Mary Lou hit the nail on the head. The info needs to get out sooner and better. It is all about managing expectation. There appears to be a common response among the SR employees that "don't worry things will return to normal", but that does not speak to the customer that takes 1 to 2 week on mountain vacation a year and find out when they arrive that the mountain has closed some trails. Given how long this event is planned out, I believe this information could/should be distributed much sooner.

[MaryLou]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

[laenen]

One thing I have always wondered is whether an event like this actually creates more business. I have skied a lot of places out west (and east) and personally, I have never chosen one because they held an event and it was on TV.

I am curious, has anyone actually gone to a resort they normally would not have because they saw an event?

I don't even think I have chosen an eastern resort to ski based upon an event.

[myfahqboots]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

I read the mountain report before I went up on Monday and there was mention of potential closures...what else do they need to do? Take out full page ads and buy commercial time on TV?

[laenen]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

I read the mountain report before I went up on Monday and there was mention of potential closures...what else do they need to do? Take out full page ads and buy commercial time on TV?

What about the people that rented a condo on the mountain for $400-600/night for the week? Try dropping a couple grand on a vacation on your 1 ski week vacation a year and see if you would be very happy.

[myfahqboots]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

I read the mountain report before I went up on Monday and there was mention of potential closures...what else do they need to do? Take out full page ads and buy commercial time on TV?

What about the people that rented a condo on the mountain for $400-600/night for the week? Try dropping a couple grand on a vacation on your 1 ski week vacation a year and see if you would be very happy.

Why would you spend that sort of money to take a ski vacation on the east coast? I don't feel bad for these people. There are plenty of other trails to ski and it gives the park rats a chance to remember how to actually make some turns.

[MaryLou]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

I read the mountain report before I went up on Monday and there was mention of potential closures...what else do they need to do? Take out full page ads and buy commercial time on TV?

What about the people that rented a condo on the mountain for $400-600/night for the week? Try dropping a couple grand on a vacation on your 1 ski week vacation a year and see if you would be very happy.

Why would you spend that sort of money to take a ski vacation on the east coast? I don't feel bad for these people. There are plenty of other trails to ski and it gives the park rats a chance to remember how to actually make some turns.

Your judgment of how others should spend their vacation time and $ is not relevant.

[gamway73]

Sweet, the mountain is getting more exposure, hence more profits. This must mean our season passes, day passes, all passes, food, rentals, BEER will be cheaper next year. Yayyyyyy!!!!

Uh, yeah right.

BTW, I have conveniently planted my arsse for the World Cup weekend two hours Northeast from SR.

[C Koch]

Why would you spend that sort of money to take a ski vacation on the east coast? I don't feel bad for these people. There are plenty of other trails to ski and it gives the park rats a chance to remember how to actually make some turns.

Maybe these people are from the east and due to the economy, they chose to save $$ on the plane ticket and baggage fees and ski the east instead. Like ML said, that is not relevant. Personally, I couldn't care less about the parks. What I DO care about is enjoyable trails with good snow conditions, and as I (and my knees) age, I tend to spend more time on the groomers.

The snow conditions on the groomers at Jordan, and to a lesser extent Aurora, are rarely as good as the trails on Barker and Locke. The wind tends to crank on Jordan, they clearly do not groom as thoroughly there, and after they've been skied for only an hour, trails like RA and Excalibur turn to boilerplate. Get there after 9 a.m. and it is scraped clean.

Same for the top of Northern Lights at Aurora. That is scraped clean by mid-morning.

Amex and Risky are generally well taken care of, and I enjoy skiing them. Some people are put off by the slow lift there, but not me. The biggest problem is see at Spruce is people skiing too fast for their abilities. It's like a training ground for the yahoos. I'd say that area is #1 for stupid human tricks.

North Peak and South Ridge are well groomed, but the runs are very short and not particularly challenging. I will concede however, that when the snow stinks everywhere else, NP can save the day for me.

So when SR blocks off, for competitions and race training, what I think is the best part of the mountain, I feel shortchanged. I can understand the importance of getting a world class competition there; I assume the mountain gets paid handsomely for that and it's a business decision.

As for the endless arguments in support of the Gould program, how about once in a while, the pampered rich kids learn to endure the labor and inconvenience of moving to another area? Why should they get prime trail space handed to them on a silver platter every single time they ask for it? A little work might give them the dose of reality that kids today so sorely need. I am sure that will be an unpopular statement, but I'm saying it anyway.

BTW, you don't see the CVA kids taking over multiple trails at Sugarloaf. They may get Comp Hill and/or a piece of Guage, but that is pretty much it. I've seen race programs (mostly Gould) take over the entirety of T2, MM, and Right Stuff, all in the same day. They also take over Obsession from time to time. Dickriculous I say.

If SR is going to routinely turn over parts of the mountain to other interests, those trails SHOULD NOT be included in the trail count.

[myfahqboots]

Here is an easy solution to your complaining/ frustration...go somewhere else. The mountain is going to do what is the best for business...like any good business would do. Get over it or take your dollars elsewhere.

BTW, unless Agony had been groomed since Monday, there is no way that trail would have been skiable yesterday.

The original poster may have done that if they knew about all the closings. Fair deal. But when SR has outdated info and posts the wrong info and trail count...how can one go elsewhere when they are there, forked over $70+ and made the trip?

Since the original post, SR and the park crew have stepped up and explained/clarified and updated their website. Fair deal.

I read the mountain report before I went up on Monday and there was mention of potential closures...what else do they need to do? Take out full page ads and buy commercial time on TV?

What about the people that rented a condo on the mountain for $400-600/night for the week? Try dropping a couple grand on a vacation on your 1 ski week vacation a year and see if you would be very happy.

Why would you spend that sort of money to take a ski vacation on the east coast? I don't feel bad for these people. There are plenty of other trails to ski and it gives the park rats a chance to remember how to actually make some turns.

Your judgment of how others should spend their vacation time and $ is not relevant.

People have such a hair across their arses here if you don't play nice. Lighten up...

4 trails equates to 3% of the mountain not being available. I would say that only 3% of the general skiing population uses the RC park on any given day. This isn't a big deal.